Friday, September 05, 2008


Somebody buys from me, I bend over backwards to make them happy. I double box, I use bubble wrap, I add a little free present.
So today, paypal tells me that 2 items purchased in June had not been rec'd, and 60 bucks I had gotten from the buyer is *POOF* GONE.
WTH? There were records permanently on etsy about it from the buyer, saying they were grateful to have rec'd the items, and so I had not kept the barcode delivery confirmation receipt. I guess I need to keep those suckers forever, because the customer's paypal address was stolen, and the way they take money is to say items were not rec'd, and so paypal refunds them into the thiefs acct! BASTARDS! Probably a bunch of Nigerian hackers or something.
The customer (bless her) wrote me saying the acct was stolen and they are trying to resolve the issue. Basically, PAYPAL needs to make amends.
DANG. I was more angry before the nice customer explained that, but I am still fuming, and I guess I will start shipping with certified mail or UPS. And keep the receipts until I am dead.
I am taking the dog for a long walk.
Have a nice weekend. :(


Knight said...

That is horrible. Now I don't trust paypal. I hope everything is resolved properly.

Gordo said...

PayPal has a very good dispute resolution process and tends to take care of problems pretty quickly. They're desperate to avoid too much government attention and wind up being regulated as a bank.

CM said...

Dude. That sucks.

Tink said...

Paypal sucks. My Mom has owned her own resume business for 17 years. She just started using Paypal 2 years ago. Twice, people have contested the charges. Once was because of a "stolen" account. The other was because the person had forgotten what the charge was for and Paypal refused to tell them who the money had gone to. My Mom is STILL (three months later) trying to get that resolved.

I'm sorry you got burned too.

Stacey said...

What Gordo said has NOT been my experience with Paypal. I view them as a necessary evil that I tolerate so that I can purchase from places like Etsy and Ebay, but it has cost me plenty, because when I've taken a dispute to Paypal (3 times now,) they've basically said "So what?" On one of those occasions I had a communication from the Postal Service saying that a tracked package had gone missing, the package was insured, but the SELLER would not release the information so that I could file a claim.

On the second occasion, I purchased insurance, the package arrived smashed to bits, and the seller did NOT send it insured, and would not refund my money even though I showed proof of purchasing insurance.

I'm sure plenty of people will (unfortunately) chime in here with their rotten paypal experiences. I wish there was a good alternative.

Latin Lupe Lu said...

That sucks Gary. So sorry. Take the dogs for another long walk again.

Farmer*swife said...

Poooooo-ville! For shame!

gary rith said...

Man. And here I was thinking that since I hadn't done anything wrong they would refund my money today with a smile.
I am persistant, though, and have sent them several emails already, and won't stop until the issue is settled.
This is why, of course, I go out of my way to tell customers that their item is paid for, on its way, and let me know how it went. Plus, of course, the double boxing and bubblewrap and whatnot. What my customers may not know is that if I charged 8 dollars for shipping, but it may have cost me 12.50, I never say anything but simply pay it.
So, basically, I try to be honest. I want people to be happy!
As far as shipping goes, though, UPS has pretty good systems that are pretty clear to use and understand. The US postal service is more difficult to contend with, but they happen to be a block away, so I usually ship with them.

soubriquet said...

Oh how I hate thieves!
And Paypal? It seems pretty obvious that PAYPAL has stolen your money. You supplied the goods, the customer paid, and somebody hacked the account... So whilst the buyer might have been negligent in her security, or Paypal was insecure, still they can clearly verify that she received the goods from you, and therefore, the money paid by her is owed by them to you.

I once supplied a very smart gallery with some pots. They were a new business, and wheedled me to depart from my normal regime of payment on despatch. Instead, pleading the new business' costs, they begged a "sale or Return" deal, in which the goods in their store remained mine until they sold....
The opening week went well, he came and told me they were selling lots... Could they take some more? And they'd pay at the end of the month? And the next order, they'd pay on collection, just.... as they're just starting... could I ... Oh, they were such nice people.
I never got paid. Letters, legal claims... They were trading, my pots were sold, they'd had the money...
I planned to go throw bricks through their window.
Or walk in and grab a valuable painting off the wall.
I was advised not to.
then the place burned down in mysterious circumstances.
The proprietors received an insurance pay-out, then were investigated for fraud.
Me? Not a penny. Twenty years ago. It still makes me mad.

Lis Garrett said...

Oh why does stuff like this have to happen? I really can't tolerate dishonest people. I'm so sorry . . .

Nancy L.K. Boyce said...

Soubriquet, Don't go knocking galleries- most true galleries (not retail stores) operate on a consignment basis, if it sells you get paid. It is up to the artist to keep good records and get signatures. I know I got ripped off once too. As for insurance, a business is not insured for anything it doesn't own. At least that is how my insurance guy tells it. Sounds like "fate" got the bad guys in your situation. Most galleries pay their artists, I know I do. My Artists ARE my business.
Nancy Boyce
Thou Art Gallery

Maggie said...

Dude that so sucks. As someone running your own business I know that can wreak havoc on a rotating income. I hate that there are people in this world who refuse to support themselves, who think it's fun to take from others and let others pay the price. I curse them, a plague on them.

gary rith said...

Sometimes you think 'hey, if I met up with these people in a dark alley and I happened to have some HEDGE TRIMMERS with me, what might I do???'

Newt said...

We just bought this awesome shovel. It's really heavy and has a big handle. I'd be happy to join you on your hedge trimmer expedition :-)

Wow, kinda sad that I get so excited about a shovel eh?

Linda Starr said...

I wonder how someone steals a paypal account? Internet is a good thing, but it has it's drawbacks too. Gary, I think paypal owes you the money and it is up to them to recoup - they should have contacted you, the sender, before they refunded the money to the " supposed customer" and then you could have let them know about the verification on ETSY (and you could have let them know the real customer's name)(and the theif might have been caught - red handed) and you wouldn't be out any money and the thief wouldn't have the money. Paypay needs to change how they refund customer's money by also verifying or checking with the sender first.

I hate to say this, but what's to stop paypal from saying the acount was stolen and a percentage of the accounts and keeping the money and increasing their bottom line? Who is checking their records? Where did they send the money? and to whom?

I think it should be like the money orders we are warned about, if paypal sent money to someone who was cheating, then paypal should be able to reverse the money out of their account and give it back to you.

oh boy I guess that's enough of a comment for now.

so sorry you got ripped off, hope you get it worked out.

Michelle said...

Aw, that sucks! Hope there's a football game on this weekend to help ease your pain.

gary rith said...

Linda, what you're saying is true. And paypal usually works very well. This has been a dizzying experience. Like landing in Paris and you don't know French?
Newt, I was thinking once I am done with the hedge clippers we would need that shovel.

Cheri @ Blog This Mom! said...

Oh Gary, I am so sorry. I would feel so violated. And I think I would send everything certified.

I am still not feeling well, but later on tonight or tomorrow, Laura and I will open the package that we most certainly DID receive from you. I can't wait.

PEACE said...

I am a very satisfied customer and was so excited on how fast my bowl came AND my free present which is on my oven as I type. That really sucks and I am sorry. I hope PayPal resolves this satisfactorily for you.

Lynda said...

I certainly received MY package exactly as described with a darling little bonus gift.

Is there another service you could use instead of PayPal?

gary rith said...

another service? how about cash in an envelope?????

soubriquet said...

I'll bring a shovel too!

nancy l.k. boyce, Sorry, i was not meaning to imply all gallery owners are bad, quite the reverse, i've dealt with many lovely, honest people in my time, and been impressed by the way they seek to bring artists and buyers together, to mutual benefit, I've had gallery owners phone me and say they had a customer, looking for something, they thought the customer might like my work, can they send the customer direct to me, and one, one in particular, thank you, Lois, for so much.

I had paperwork, signatures, the place was a gallery, but it wanted retail stock separately, my pots dotted about between the paintings, as opposed to a proper exhibit of my works, I was just the filler. But they were very nice and persuasive, and I was trusting and stupid.
The cost of recovery in the courts was going to be as high as my losses, so I eventually had to take the loss. Likewise, my insurance would have only part paid, and put the premium up next year.

Gallery owners can and do do so much for artists, we don't begrudge them at all. It was just that one couple, who abused my trust so badly.

~ Sil in Corea said...

I've had my account hacked twice at Paypal. My dealings with them left me with the feeling that they didn't really know what they were up against {the hackers' skills level}. I send a check in the mail, as I've also been burned wiring money.

Thanks again, Gary, for mailing my son's birthday present!

Hugs from The Land of Morning Calm
(because the kids stay up until midnight),
~ Sil